WestWind Airlines

My dream is to be a commercial pilot. I'm currently looking at colleges like Daniel Webster in Nashua, N.H. Everyone I talk to about beoming a pilot says that it's not a good job. I realize the risks but now I'm full of uncertainties. If there are any real world commercial pilots that read this, can you give me any tips, truths, or fictions about the road to becomming a commercial pilot. (I mean flying for an airline or for a good living, not just getting a commercial pilots liscence) If you want to, send me an e-mail at scote1992@gmail.com  Thanks!

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Scott Cote
Senior Captain
Hub Manager Madrid (LEMD)

Hi ya Scott.  I remember the time in my life where you are at now.  Setting my goal of becoming an airline pilot and picking a flight school.  I'm not gonna lie.  You've got a long and difficult road ahead of you but I wouldn't trade my job for anything.  I'm not familiar with Daniel Webster College's flight program so I can't really compare it to anything.  I went to a mid sized flight school in northwestern Ohio.  It took about 6 years to get where I am today.  I just walked in the door from doing a round trip to JFK actually.  We were number 28 in line for takeoff behind an American 767 and in front of a British Airways 747 at JFK.  I truly think we pilots have the best window office in the world.  I've got plenty of tips, truths, facts, and fiction for you.   You can send me an email if you like with some specific questions you have.  Or I can just ramble on about anything you'd like to hear.  I'm off tomorrow so I have all day.  braden.vonderau@gmail.com

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Braden Vonderau
Senior Command Capt
KORD/KMDW

Hi Scott,

I graduated from Daniel Webster.  Currently fly a Challenger 300 for FlexJet.  Like Braden said, you've got a long road ahead of you.  The DW program is pretty good, but the name of the game really is flight time (for better or for worse, that's what everyone initially looks at).  A program like DW or Embry Riddle or many of the others will get you through your ratings, then you need to find a way to build up the hours.

As a career you need to be absolutely sure this is what you want to do.  It's a tough job, you are away from home and your loved ones a lot.  I average 220+ nights a year in a hotel (I'm sitting in one right now).  I am very fortunate in that I found a great woman to be married to.  We've had our ups and downs about me being gone, but so far it's working (and I've been flying for a living since 1998).  Be prepared to miss birthdays, anniversaries, holidays etc.  If you can get around those issues, then it is still a pretty fun and interesting career.  You get to see the country and get paid while doing it.  Starting pay can be pretty crappy at a lot of the commuter airlines (even some of the major carriers like AA or CO don't pay much more than upper 20's the first year).  It gets better from there, but it is not anything like it was 20 or even 10 years ago.  If you want to you can post specific questions here, or e-mail me at wwdco@yahoo.com.  I would almost prefer you post them here, that way anyone else in a similar situation could benefit from the discussion too!

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR
ATP, CFI, CFII & MEI, CL30, 727, 737-200, DC-9
FS9, Active Sky 6.5 w/ASG, FSPax

What routes did you take after DW to get enough hours?(Meaning did you rent planes, buy any, etc.) And would joining my local Air National Guard mean anything to prospective employers?

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Scott Cote
Senior Captain
Hub Manager Madrid (LEMD)

I am not a pro pilot but I got most of my ratings in college working summers as a line boy and then as a CFI.  If you have a local airport of any size look into a job there on the flight line. I got to ride in the right seat hour after hour in numerous light twins because the guys just wanted the company.  Eventually they put me in the left seat on dead heads.  I got a free multi-ticket after my CFI rating because of a doctor I met who owned an Aztec and he and his wife became students of mine. I have quite a few hours in N10EC which is our state King Air because I was the best man in the chief pilot's wedding. This all stemmed from being a line boy at a couple of the Nashville fixed bases.

I spent four months at ERAU Daytona but the majority of my training took place about five miles from home in Nashville. 

My current job is a result of being a CFI in Nashville in the late 1970s because one of my students was a VP of South Central Bell (now ATT) who took a liking to me. I work for Synergy Corp.(Telecom) in a mundane position but affords me a nice life style. I look out the window when I see the Fed Ex guys go in and out.

I guess you could say my life evolved from that first day I started out as a line boy at KBNA.  My kids never listened but I really do suggest looking into the work at the local fixed base.

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Scott Williams
WWA 1404
Senior Command Captain-Madrid hub
Commercial ASMEL Instrument-CFI

Scott Cote:

What routes did you take after DW to get enough hours?(Meaning did you rent planes, buy any, etc.) And would joining my local Air National Guard mean anything to prospective employers?

I started out on a Commercial Pilot career path until I discovered most of the things that Kim talked about. My family must come first...that has always been my #1 priority, therefore, I gave up the flying. Part of the reason for that was because at that time, the Vietnam War was winding down and the military pilots were moving right into the civilian flying jobs, which left me with having to build my flight hours the hard way. With a family, I could not afford to do that.  As for Air National Guard... unless you can get the military  to train you as a pilot, military duty will not help when it comes to getting a job of any sort. I'm an a veteran of the USAF (Vietnam era), non-flying. All of the job applications I fill out these days (Lots of them) ask for veteran status, but that doesn't seem to matter to the employer. Even the US /State government jobs state "veteran preference". I have applied for those positions also...never heard a word...and yes, I am qualified for all of the jobs I apply for.

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Bob S.
Senior Command Captain+2
E.V.P. Scenery

Scott Cote:

What routes did you take after DW to get enough hours?(Meaning did you rent planes, buy any, etc.) And would joining my local Air National Guard mean anything to prospective employers?

In a way I got very lucky.  Right out of college, I went down to Comair (I think it is Delta Connection Academy now) to get all my instructor ratings.  I did that in about 7 or 8 months in the middle of 1997.  After I graduated there I had to wait until December to become a flight instructor.  4 months into instructing, a 727 operator that was trying to stabilize their training costs came down looking for low time pilots to fly as flight engineer's on the 727 (at the time the majors were hiring like crazy, and they would train guys as f/e's only to turn around and train them as co-pilots a couple of months later).  I interviewed and was hired with 552 hours of total time (this was in March of 1998, I started school on the 727 in May of 98).

After 6 months of flying the line as an F/E based in Boston (living in Dallas) the position of Chief Flight Engineer became vacant and some of the management folks suggested that I may want to apply for the position.  I did and was promoted in March of 1999.  One condition of my taking the job was that I would be able to upgrade to co-pilot early, and I did my right seat check out in the summer of 1999.  From there till now has been a wild ride.  The company went Chapter 11 late in the fall of 2001 (big shock I know), and we furloughed all our line pilots on new year's eve of 2001.  I stayed on through the next 7 months when we were a 1 airplane 1 crew operation (we had some contract guys too).  I was furloughed in July of 2001.  The court basically made us stop flying in order to conserve cash.

My next job was a who you know type of thing (737-200).  I had been laid off, and I knew the chief pilot of this other company, so I called him up, and lucky me they were hiring.

Like I said I've been very lucky.  I got into jets with very little time, and was able to get to about 1700 hours total time with the flying I did in the 727 and then the 737 and dc-9 jobs got me just enough time to get hired by my current employer.  I can't say as to whether being in the National Guard will make any difference right now.  In some cases it may be a slight negative (even though it shouldn't be) due to the fact that many guard units have been deployed in the last several years for extensive tours.  On the flip side though, it would be another source of income and a decent way to build time.

The traditional path when you come out of a college program like ERAU or Daniel Webster is to get your CFI ratings and then teach somewhere, while you build enough time to get hired by someone.  Lately, and this has probably changed in the last 9 months or so, the commuter airlines were hiring guys with as little as 250 to 300 hours total time to fly right seat in an RJ.  But life at a commuter airline isn't for everyone.

Keep the questions coming, I'm sure everyone would agree that whatever you decide, we want it to be an informed decision.....

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR
ATP, CFI, CFII & MEI, CL30, 727, 737-200, DC-9
FS9, Active Sky 6.5 w/ASG, FSPax

Kim, bob, everyone else big queston.

I have begun to sit down and think about college and after I graduate and all that. My father and I have a dispute and I want you oppions.

My father(who is currently in the army) woud want to see me go into the Air force, do my 8 years as a cargo pilot or something  to get my certs like that, go to colege while in the air force to get an enginnering degree or something  pr do my 8 years and walk out and get a job.

I would rather go to one of the college programs get my bacheors or higher in Aviation.

And plans are to work with delta or united, 1 of the major U.S. Airlines, someone with a 747 (I know I wont fly it at first but, for down the road purposes)

 

Also can I wait till after High school to get my private iscence or should I start sonner? 

 

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-David Givens
WWA2276

I'm just reading and loving the responses from the real world pilots, you guys are not trying to put roses on anything giving the truth about what the job entails.

I too would like to become a commercial pilot someday but I'm all the way in the caribbean so my trodding to that dream looks like it may just be a dream. Family is very important in my life and don't know if i can be away from my wife while i'm training although she would like it if i fullfill the dream. 

I used to work at TTCP for 3 yrs as i left high school at the age of 16, was a Customer Service Rep for Liat so i spent alot of time on dash 8's thats where the love began. Now at 27yrs old, I'm a DJ, also Network Admin for the University of West Indies here and that alone has me a little busy as is, the closest i am to flying is FS2004 and i love it, learned alot more things on the sim than i ever realized.

So i guess i'll leave the flying dream here with you guys and  FS2004.

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Kamau Harriott
WWA2185
London (Heathrow) Hub - EGLL
Cat V Capt

Well David

I'll start at the end.  I never flew a single hour of flight time until I got to college and I turned out ok (haha I think?).  However I know of several people that started before hand.  Either way, my opinion says there's no difference whether you start flying in college or before.  In fact, I know several others at my airline that didn't start until way later in their life and this is their second career.

As for the military.  I can see why your Dad wants you to take that route.  Its a great experience and can pay for quite a bit (if not all) of your flight training expenses, which is quite significant.  I too thought about going into the military.  I would've done the Coast Guard personally.  But the I don't really see anything to dispute the Air Force.  I personally don't regret the route I decided to take by going to college.  The only point I must emphasize on is the fact that most airlines today require, or highly recommend a college degree.  Your degree however does not have to be in aviation studies.  If you had an engineering degree, you would just as likely get hired.  So whether military or civilian, get that degree!  Other than that, I hope to see you sitting next to me on a 747 flight deck some day.  Or I'd settle for a 757/67

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Braden Vonderau
Senior Command Capt
KORD/KMDW

Capt Brado:

Well David

 The only point I must emphasize on is the fact that most airlines today require, or highly recommend a college degree.  Your degree however does not have to be in aviation studies.  If you had an engineering degree, you would just as likely get hired.  So whether military or civilian, get that degree!  Other than that, I hope to see you sitting next to me on a 747 flight deck some day.  Or I'd settle for a 757/67

You need a college degree to fly in the Air Force also. However, chances are pretty good that the Air Force will pay your college tuition. Between paying for your college degree and training you as a pilot, you would have to give them a god chunk of you life, but you wouldn't have to worry about a job or how you would pay for your education. Both of those are major considerations in today's economy!

Looking back now, I sure wish I had stayed in the Air Force.

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Bob S.
Senior Command Captain+2
E.V.P. Scenery

David, personally my Uncle is trying to get me into the RAF. He used to be in the millitary himslef during the threat of the Cold War (but with us being in the UK, he was almost un-effected by the war) and he's trying to convince me to get into the millitary services with something I enjoy; i.e. Flying!

I would consider it if I were you, but don't go into it if it is not what you truely want. In my case when I was little I was always facinated by the Red Arrows and I have told myslef that I was going to be flying with them in the future!

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Yup - I'm back!! Did ya miss me???

James "Crashahollic" Forbes (WWA1984)
Test Pilot

Ex KJFK HM
Ex Director of Online Operations

When I lived in Colorado Springs I spent a lot of time at the U.S. Air Force Academy (not as a student or faculty member). I spent time with cadets who wanted to fly for a living. At the USAFA, the competition is very intense. A lot of cadets who want to fly don't make it and you are really lucky (or I should say good) if you get to fly jets. I don't know how it is at other schools or in other branches of the military.

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EVP Hub Operations, Sr. Test Pilot
Senior Command Captain +4
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
FSX-SP2 + Radar Contact
Orbiter, FaceBook

Thanks for all the responses guys! They have been really helpful. I love that the Westwind family can be so suportive.

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Scott Cote
Senior Captain
Hub Manager Madrid (LEMD)

Guys I have 1 questions,

Whats is it like living out of a suit case all the time?

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-David Givens
WWA2276