WestWind Airlines

Hi, the reason I'm posting this thread here cause there are alot of real-world pilots here and some of them are currently under process, so its like a gold mine to ask here.

Well if I ask "How to get a CPL?" then one may easily answer by saying "get 35k and head towards some flying school", but theres more than meets the eyes.

My situation is way too much different then any of you guys. I'm a Pakistani Muslim, u gettin my point?!? I'm proud of my religion though, but I'll have much probs to get a CPL from a better place.

There are also some flying schools here in my country too, but cost is more or less the same, but the quality is much poorer.

One of my friend from pakistan has just completed his CPL and now he's increasing his Flying Hours as an instructor in Florida, but he has an American citizenship, so dont have much problems.

Another problem that I might face is to convince my parents to spend such an anount of money, cause I've heard that now days its a risk to spend so much as theres a scarcity of pilot jobs, and one needs more than 1000 hours.

flying is like my passion, cant even think not going on that side. 

Also tell me the costs, according to my research it'll cost around $35,000-US, and what are the job opportunities for foreigners, like if I do CPL from US will i get a job easily there and get a work permit?

 

Please if anyone can help me get over my probs, it would be very much appriciated.

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Hasan Nizamani
WWA2090
CAT-II
Sydney Hub

Hi Hasan,

While it may be a long process to get the documents required to come to the US to do your training, I don't think it would be impossible, and I don't think you should dismiss that as an option.

As to getting your CPL.  Here in the states your option of getting the money and heading for a flying school is probably the best answer.  You can do it through a flight school at the local airport, but the big schools that do flight training will probably get you there faster.  The typical process is you enroll and then you start by getting your PPL, then your IFR rating and then you get your commercial rating (and somewhere in there you get your multi-engine rating too).  $35,000 is probably in the neighborhood, but keep in mind that is the price you'll pay if you complete everything on their timetable.  Not everyone learns the same and it may take you longer to master certain things than it would someone else.  I had almost 77 hours when I got my PPL, but I know guys who got theirs much faster, and I also know guys who took longer.

I'm not sure what the job opporutnities would be for foreigners in the US right now.  I do know that the "regional" airlines (companies like Comair, American Eagle, Mesaba, etc....) are hiring pilots with fairly low time right now (less than 400 hours) but I don't know if that will last or not.....Your biggest obstacle would be obtaining all the proper documents to be able to study and then eventually work here in the US.  Again I don't think this would be difficult, it's just a long drawn out process from what I understand.  I work with several foreign nationals currently and I don't think it was a big problem for them (they just have to be careful when leaving the US as sometimes their nationality requires a Visa to go to Mexico or Canada for example....).

Figure on finishing up your CPL with anywhere from 200 to 250 total hours of flight time.  That might actually get you hired at a few places flying RJ's today, but competitive numbers have traditionally been in the 1,000 hour range with 250 hours of multi time.......

I hope this helped, ask away if you have more questions.....

Cheers,

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR

thanks VPCargo, here are 5 others..

1. What is the "average" time period for getting the complete package done from scratch.

2. What are the chances to get a job as an instructor after doing 200-250 hrs.

3, What is the average expence for living costs per month?

4, How many days per week i have to go to and learn flying?

5. If i get a part-time job, then what is the average per hour can i get?

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Hasan Nizamani
WWA2090
CAT-II
Sydney Hub

by Part-Time job i meant working in a cafe or a shop, as most students do abroad., and living costs per month including lodging, food and traveling.

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Hasan Nizamani
WWA2090
CAT-II
Sydney Hub

Hasan Nizamani:

thanks VPCargo, here are 5 others..

1. What is the "average" time period for getting the complete package done from scratch.

2. What are the chances to get a job as an instructor after doing 200-250 hrs.

3, What is the average expence for living costs per month?

4, How many days per week i have to go to and learn flying?

5. If i get a part-time job, then what is the average per hour can i get?

1.  This depends on where you go for the training, how fast a learner you are and if the weather cooperates, but I would plan on between 10 to 18 months as a minimum time commitment.

2.  Again this depends, many of the schools will hire their own students back as instructors.  However, in order to teach you must get your instructors license, which will add more time and money to your training (and you need a separate license to teach in multi-engine airplanes or to teach ifr flying).

3.  I can't answer this one accurately, it's been far too long since I was a student pilot.  However, many of the schools do offer some sort of housing or housing assistance.

4.  As to days per week this is generally up to the program.  At a school like Pan Am or Delta Connection, you could in theory fly every day.  In my experience I think 3 to perhaps 5 times a week works the best, you have to work your flying in around ground school too......

5.  As to the part time job, I think the minimum wage is between $6 and $6.50 per hour right now (someone please correct me if I am wrong!).  Some places probably pay more.

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR

I thought min. wage was 7.15.i could be wrong though

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Scott Jones
WWA2062
Assistant Hub Manager KJFK
Sr.Capt
Monster Driver

Scott Jones:

I thought min. wage was 7.15.i could be wrong though

Currently, the Federal minimum wage is $6.55/hr.  A 2007 law required incremental increases each year to $7.25 by mid-2009.

As to how long to get a CPL...as Kim stated, it depends on how often you fly and how quickly you learn.  I flew 5-days  a week (weather permitting) and took 6-months. That was way back in 1969.  I never did make it as a commercial pilot, for several reasons:

1. I had a family by then and didn't have the money to complete my instrument rating/multi engine ratings.

2. The Vietnam war was winding down and the market was flooded with veteran military pilots who were getting all the jobs.

3. I could have done flight instruction to build hours, but could not do that and support the family too.

Looking back on it now, I'm happy with the way things turned out. After all, I am now a Senior Command Captain with the best V.A. in the world; and an Executive Vice President as well!   What more can anyone ask for?   

 

 

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Bob S.
Senior Command Captain
E.V.P. Scenery

alright hasan, the advice so far you have been given is close to accurate, and definatly not bad.  i dont know where $35,000 came from, but its not very accurate.  I typically see people apending about $9 to $15k on a private, and another $15 to $20k on an instrament.  you have to consider many other facotrs.  as far as having 200-250 hours for a commercial license, that is completly in-accurate.  federal aviation regs. state that you need to have atleast 250 hours for a commercial rating, if you attend a part 61 school (and yes i do know about the 50 hours of sim you can use towards a comercial certificate).  if you attend a part 141 school, the hour requirement is less, but you usually pay more for that kind of training.  the typical cost to get all of your ratings here in the states is around $70-80 thousand as of a few months ago.  to get a private/instrament usually costs around $35k, due to the 50hr cross country PIC requirement to get an instrament rating.  I would lean toward some of the schools that offer housing on site as part of tuition.  there are so many here that you could research for months.  just try to find one that you can research on the Better Buisness Beuro web site (my spelling suks, I know).  I currently instructing for a company called American Flyers.  We offer part 141 training and mostly cater to foreign students, but housing is not provided.  I am not trying to sell you on our product, as I dont think it is right for you.  Housing is expensive, so look for someone that includes it. 

 Also plan on spending more than what the company you select tells you that you need.  they try and get you in at the minimum "this is what the FAA says you need, and based on this, it will cost you this much" scenerio.  of the many students I have signed off to take check rides, only one, who was a 141 student, was ready at the 35hr mark.  the majority take about 65-75 hours.  if you have anymore questions, feel free to ask, i'd love to see someone else enjoy the freedome of flight.

Hi Hasan,

 

I too want to do my CPL and I've noticed its very expensive. In Ireland, it will cost you about €90,000-€120,000 depending on what qualifications you have already, so I am not going there!! However I found a course the London Metropolitan University in London thats cheaper. The course takes 2 years. In the 1st year you do a Foundation in Aviation Managment and in your 2nd year you do all your pilot's licences.The costs are:

£4,000 for PPL

£20,000 for CPL

and about £12,000 to add a Instrument Licence

The first year (thats the Managment course) can be paid for by the UK government but is paid back when you are in a job.

Yes, It is expensive, but its nearer to where I live and very popular with people from all over the world. After all, it is the most multi-cultural city in the world! The website is www.londonmet.ac.uk if you want to check it out. Another advantage is if you don't get a job as a pilot, or you get sick of it after an while, you can always fall back on your foundation in Aviation Managment.  They also give you the option of extending your managment to honours level after you get your CPL, that takes another 2 years and its also paid for by the UK Government. 

Hope this helps!

 

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Eoin Coates
Command Captain
Real World Student Pilot
Frankfurt am Mein-Hub Manager

"Stranger things have happened"

not a bad find, but remember, convert pounds to dollars, right now i think its like 1.8 pounds to 1 dollar.  the math works out to about the same cost.  and the one thing that needs to be considered, SENORITY IS EVERYTHING.  that is the reason that the US is doing so well with foriegn students right now.  I have 2 students from japan, and the have told me it's 4 times as expensive to get your lic. in japan.  so, if total cost of the program you found is 38,000, multiply by 1.8, that works out to roughly 68400.  still close in cost.  but, you will be there in less than a year in the states, vs up to 4 years in the UK.  does that cost include all of the user fee's for europe?  we dont pay user fee's here in the US.  from what i have been told by europe'an students, the average cost of user fee's vs renting an airplane for an hour for touch and goes is mor than the rental.  dont forget to look at everything, not just the "cost of the program."  you could end up paying 4to5k in user fees alone if it's not included for just the PPL.  i am on my way out the door to an airshow right now, but i'll look later to see whats up with the program later.  so far it looks like a realy good find!

Yes, it covers user fees. One of the big differences between the UK and USA is weather, if you do your CPL on the US, your far more likely to finish it quicker than in the UK. Like Japan, Ireland is ridiculously expensive, it works out to be about twice the price of London and the US. So I won't be training in this country! I'm still doing my research and I've started looking into Flying Schools in the US. So hopefully I find something even better there!

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Eoin Coates
Command Captain
Real World Student Pilot
Frankfurt am Mein-Hub Manager

"Stranger things have happened"

check these guy's out.  they have a great reputation here in the states, and the work with Pilot Training College of Ireland to convert FAA ratings into JAA's.  might be worth a look.  the best part is they have a campus in Vero Beach Florida (paradise).  i used to live just to the south.  the weather there is nice, kinda humid, but nice.  and you are sure to get a huge variation on the kind of weather you fly in.  i think they may provide housing to student at either no additional cost, or very cheap.  i would have gone there if not accepted by ATP.  and like i said in a previous post, seniority is everything.  if you csn msanage to live on a regional jobs pay (small airline) and go to school online to get a degree, you'll be way ahead in the seniority curve.  right now i am flight instructing to build hours.  i want to fly corporate, as the airlines here in the states are extreamly unstable.  a perfect example is a furloughs.  i ahve a friend who retired a few years back.  he was hit by a string of furloughs years back.  he had been with the airline for 7 years, and had just been promoted to captian.  they cut from the bottom first, so first officer that had been FO's for a few years, got to keep there jobs, some more senior captians got demoted to FO's, and he was layed off.  i just dont see it beeing a stable career here in the states.  besides, when you fly corporate you can move laterly, instead of starting over when you upgrade, you will get a pay raise.

www.flightsafetyacademy.com

I have been trained and retrained by FSI and can vouch for their program as excellent and highly respected.

The only thing with BizJets is many companies want you to come with ratings. That means when you want to upgrade you have to pay for such upgrades. The Fractional are a better treatment offering airline like pilot atmosphere to Bizjet flying without all of the hassles.

The best thing you can do if you are going the private BizJet solution is to get Transoceanic experience. I was once offered a job in a Citation II based wholly on my transoceanic experience in that I have hopped both the Atlantic and Pacific in a King Air.

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-KenG

Whatever you do, don't come to Belgium. Due to a change in regulations there's not even 1 single school who can issue me a CPL-H license!!!! Anybody have any tips for me? I have a CPL-H obtained in NZ, and I've been waiting for over a year now to have it validated here in Belgium. Thing is that the schools here are having trouble getting certified under the new regulations... and in the mean while I'm grounded :'-(
Lucky for me there's still the virtual skies that I can take to.

 Anyway, a bit more on topic now, here's my €0.02:
Make sure that wherever you get your license, you'll be able to use it in your homecountry or wherever you intend to work afterwards.

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"The helicopter approaches closer than any other vehicle the fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of the flying horse and the magic carpet." - Igor Sikorsky