WestWind Airlines

American Airlines are going to start charging for things which were once Free!

Go to: http://www.mail.com/Article.aspx?articlepath=APNews\Top%20Headlines\20080521\American_Airlines_Reductions_20080521.xml&cat=topheadlines&subcat=&pageid=1 and read about it!

(Sorry about how big the link is)

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Test Pilot

50 Hours x6
Green Monster x2
P001
October 2008 Screenshot Comp Winner

VATID: 1040117
Controller: UK Heathrow & Essex Region

 More unhappy passingers for them I gusss.

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Assistant Hub Manager KDFW
WWA2058
Jason Sterner

There was a time when American Airlines was at the very top of my favorite airlines list. I went way out of my way to tell people about my positive experiences with them. Today, they are at the bottom of my list. They are my airline of last resort.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

James WWA1984:

American Airlines are going to start charging for things which were once Free!

It'll be oxygen one of these days.  

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Mark Kuebeler, KSLC

fuel prices are a real problem.  $5.69/gal for Jet-A here at KPAE.

Would be interesting to model the economics of our flights within the dispatch system somehow. see how many customers we'd need to make the flight worth it :)

Today Congress was grilling the oil company execs again over "record profits"... I see one of two things happening:

1. We go and drill for the oil where we know it already is and tell the environmentalists to be quiet for a while.  We have plenty of oil in Alaska and off the coast of the Pacific states and in the Gulf of Mexico... (and build more refineries as well)

2. (more likely) Congress imposes price controls on gasoline, which cuts into the oil companies' profits.  No way to know what the consequences of that would be, but probably would be some bad mixed in with the good.

 

what bothers me about all this is that there is a LOT of oil... more than we thought 30-40 years ago... but nobody will go dig it up and refine it.  Sure, alternative energy is great and all, but we need a solution *now* for the short term as well as the long term.  And I don't see turbofan engines running on solar power anytime soon ;)

 

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Scott M. Stone
WWA1712 - Cat-III - Director of Aircraft
VATSIM 1018857 - C1 Controller - KZSE
Private Pilot - ASEL + Complex + IFR (almost)

It's going to be interesting.  Living in the DFW area I fly on AA quite a bit for work.  I predict that security is going to be way backed up on the 15th of June as everyone decides they'll take their 22" rollaboard to the aircraft rather than check it, and then the flights will be delayed as the overhead bins fill up and they have to gate check 50 or so bags at the last second.

Price controls have never been good.  IIRC Nixon tried that with something and it backfired severely.  I agree that we need to go get what we have, while working on a better long term solution.  The energy policy has been basically nothing the last 50 years in the US.  Congress says they want energy independence and then do nothing about it, while caving to the demands of the environmentalists, we need to find a balance there and imho everyone in Congress is full of you know what......

The problem with refineries is that the EPA has made it virtually impossible to build a new one because you can't meet the EPA's requirements with currently available refining technology.  Basically what we are seeing right now is the failure of Congress to do anything productive on an energy policy since basically the late 50's (or possibly even earlier).

The Air Force flew a B1 the other day on a synthetic Jet Fuel.  According to the pilot the flight was remarkably uneventful.  I think there is promise there, but the process is in its infancy....... 

and Scott, the out the door price of Jet A the other day at Atlanta PDK was $8.04 a gallon if you wanted prist.......where I work right now our average cost on jet fuel is hovering between about $6.75 to $7.50 per gallon (there are a few places where we get some screaming deals, but those are dwindling).  Not surprisingly hours flown are off by about 7% so far this year......

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR

WWA1712:

2. (more likely) Congress imposes price controls on gasoline, which cuts into the oil companies' profits.  No way to know what the consequences of that would be, but probably would be some bad mixed in with the good.

The implementation of price controls is a very scary prospect. In this case we are talking about setting a price ceiling. What most people don't realize is that price ceilings create shortages (price floors create surpluses). It is very predictable. That means that if price ceilings are implemented you can expect that gas stations will run out of gas and there will be none to purchase at any price. I remember when Nixon tried it. I was young and didn't know anything about economics then. I voted for him because he was going to do something about inflation. When he did it, as economists would predict, when I went to the store to buy things I could usually get, they were not on the shelves. They also tried it with gas prices in Hawaii after Katrina. It didn't work then either.

Let's be smarter than that. Let's not get sucked into believing in price controls.

Another thing driving gas prices, besides refinery capacity, is that people in India and China are beginning to be wealthy enough to afford cars. There are about 2.5 billion people in those two countires alone.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

Mark Kuebeler:

It'll be oxygen one of these days.  

They probbably already have started charging for it!

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Test Pilot

50 Hours x6
Green Monster x2
P001
October 2008 Screenshot Comp Winner

VATID: 1040117
Controller: UK Heathrow & Essex Region

WWA1712:

fuel prices are a real problem.  $5.69/gal for Jet-A here at KPAE.

Would be interesting to model the economics of our flights within the dispatch system somehow. see how many customers we'd need to make the flight worth it :)

Today Congress was grilling the oil company execs again over "record profits"... I see one of two things happening:

1. We go and drill for the oil where we know it already is and tell the environmentalists to be quiet for a while.  We have plenty of oil in Alaska and off the coast of the Pacific states and in the Gulf of Mexico... (and build more refineries as well)

2. (more likely) Congress imposes price controls on gasoline, which cuts into the oil companies' profits.  No way to know what the consequences of that would be, but probably would be some bad mixed in with the good.

 

what bothers me about all this is that there is a LOT of oil... more than we thought 30-40 years ago... but nobody will go dig it up and refine it.  Sure, alternative energy is great and all, but we need a solution *now* for the short term as well as the long term.  And I don't see turbofan engines running on solar power anytime soon ;)

 

That pretty cheap,just looked at the prices in KJFK,Jet A is at $7.18.Cant imagine what it cost to fill one of the bad boys up.Ide be happy in the money they burned just in start up and taxi

 

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Scott Jones
WWA2062
Assistant Hub Manager KJFK
Sr.Capt
Monster Driver

It's not so much the EPA limits that stops new refineries from being built.  Even though no "new" refineries have been built in the last 30 years, almost all of them have increased refining capacity in recent years.  The main roadblock to new refineries is that there is no money refining oil into gas.  At $135 per barrel of crude, why drop literally billions of dollars on a new refinery?  They already make bank on just getting it out of the ground.  I think the biggest concern should be that Saudi Arabia is building new refineries and they pump the crude, so they are working toward vertical integration and if that happens we're all screwed.  They already have a big say in setting the price of oil, and now they want the same when it comes to the wholesale price of gas.

The solution will have to come from the government as the private sector energy industry won't change when they are raking in billions each quarter.  I can't see pumping our own oil adding enough to the overall supply to get us back to anything under $3.00/gal.  Although, I'm seeing gas prices around town at $4.09/gal, so maybe that's not too bad.  I think we need to think in terms of the next 30 years, as most cars and trucks have a usable life span of 17 years before they are junked (I heard that on a news radio program once).  Since you can't tell people to go buy a new fuel efficient car, or move closer to work, it will take decades to change the American way of life (sort-a speak).  As much as I hate to admit it, I think oil is here to stay for at least the next 50 years... But there are such things as hybrid-fuels that look promising.  I'm not a chemical engineer but I read that there is a way to essentially add hydrogen to gasoline to achieve a more complete burn.  This will increase gas mileage by some 40% (or more?).  That alone, gets us off foreign oil.  I would like to see a return of the electric car.  Even GM's old one from the early 90s would work for me.  I live close enough to work that I'd only need a battery that gets 50 miles per charge and I'd buy it.  Bottomline, it is going to take leadership from our elected officials to make a long-term plan (so please go vote for some smart ones) and we as Americans are going to have to work at reducing our consumption in the short-term, because the problem of high fuel prices is going to be with us for a while. 

 As for American Airlines...  I bet you $100 that by the Chistmas season they charge by the pound.  You, your family and your bags all get on a big scale at the check-in counter (a-la "Big Loser") a big flashing red light tells the others in the airport how much you weigh, then you pay up front...  If that weren't bad enough, there is a 50/50 chance at getting the full cavity search at security, you miss your flight and have to pay an extra $100 to fly stand-by on the next flight.  Bottomline, I'm looking into Amtrak for my next vacation!

 Matt M.
WWA 1887
AHM KDEN

well, if we can get more of our electrical grid onto nuclear power, that will take some pressure off the oil supplies, although not much, since most of our power is coal/nuclear already in the US.  Companies will see profit in building a new refinery when the current refining capacity becomes a bottleneck to production.

 

As for drilling our own oil, the only thing that I think we can do near-term is the alaskan national refuge.. anything else would take a long time to build/setup (offshore rigs).  But we can still expand our production capacity faster than we can get everyone to buy a hybrid, which, even if gas started costing $5/gal, it's far cheaper for me to keep what I have than to go buy one of those things.

Electric cars make sense if-and-only-if we bring more nuclear plants online, IMO.  Which at least one presidential candidate is talking about as part of his proposed energy policy (12 more nuclear plants).  There's technology now for electric cars that can go 200+ miles on a single charge and can be quite powerful in terms of performance, so the car technology is pretty much "there", but if we need to burn more oil to charge the cars, then it's a moot point :)

Still doesn't help the aviation industry, however.  Electric motors won't power airplanes, probably ever, as long as batteries are involved - the weight of an electric car is fairly significant due to the weight of the batteries.  A twin-engine piston aircraft currently weighs far less than your family car.. an electric vehicle is not light.  it wouldn't work for GA.. would be way too heavy.  And... well, jet turbines need petroleum-based fuel, for the time being.  Seems that an H2 turbine might be possible though?

 

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Scott M. Stone
WWA1712 - Cat-III - Director of Aircraft
VATSIM 1018857 - C1 Controller - KZSE
Private Pilot - ASEL + Complex + IFR (almost)

Also, I fly quite often, usually once a month or once every two months, and I have not been pulled aside for "extra screening" on a domestic flight in years, and it is rare that I see that happening to anyone on domestic flights.  Has happened to me twice on the way back to the US from China, but never domestically.

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Scott M. Stone
WWA1712 - Cat-III - Director of Aircraft
VATSIM 1018857 - C1 Controller - KZSE
Private Pilot - ASEL + Complex + IFR (almost)

A little touge-and-cheek with the security check paragraph.  Since 9-11, I've only been stopped 3 times over a span of about 20 flights.  Nothing big, just getting the detector wand over my belt buckle.

My hope for electric cars is that a power plant (coal, natural gas, nuclear, etc.) can produce electricity more efficiently than a current combustion engine burns gas.  I think this is the case.

As for aviation, your right, it's gas and only gas.

I will leave you with this as food for thought.  The car and the airplane were designed at roughly the same time (1900, give or take 10 years).  The internal combustion engine is basically still the same now as it was then.  Maybe it was a spectacular design, and of course computer integration has proved to make cars run more efficiently... BUT, if the airplane progressed technologically at the same pace as the automobile???  We would still be crossing our hearts and hoping not to die as we board the "Vin Fiz" with Wilber and Orville for a trip home to see grandma. :)

Just look at the difference in the last 20 years of aviation, with improved fuel economy, avionics, etc.  Hell, you really on need a pilot to look at the computer flying it to make sure it doesn't screw up (sorry, RW pilots).  If you take your hands off the wheel of a car for more than 5 seconds you're in trouble.

 Matt M.
WWA 1887
AHM KDEN

WWA1887:

.. BUT, if the airplane progressed technologically at the same pace as the automobile???  We would still be crossing our hearts and hoping not to die as we board the "Vin Fiz" with Wilber and Orville for a trip home to see grandma. :)

 Matt M.
WWA 1887
AHM KDEN

The technology is there, but are you willing to pay the same price for a car as would for an airplane?   Also, compare car drivers to airplane drivers.  They couldn't handle the technology. Then there is the infrastructure aspect.

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Bob S.
Senior Command Captain
E.V.P. Scenery

WWA1887:

A little touge-and-cheek with the security check paragraph.  Since 9-11, I've only been stopped 3 times over a span of about 20 flights.  Nothing big, just getting the detector wand over my belt buckle.

My hope for electric cars is that a power plant (coal, natural gas, nuclear, etc.) can produce electricity more efficiently than a current combustion engine burns gas.  I think this is the case.

As for aviation, your right, it's gas and only gas.

I will leave you with this as food for thought.  The car and the airplane were designed at roughly the same time (1900, give or take 10 years).  The internal combustion engine is basically still the same now as it was then.  Maybe it was a spectacular design, and of course computer integration has proved to make cars run more efficiently... BUT, if the airplane progressed technologically at the same pace as the automobile???  We would still be crossing our hearts and hoping not to die as we board the "Vin Fiz" with Wilber and Orville for a trip home to see grandma. :)

Just look at the difference in the last 20 years of aviation, with improved fuel economy, avionics, etc.  Hell, you really on need a pilot to look at the computer flying it to make sure it doesn't screw up (sorry, RW pilots).  If you take your hands off the wheel of a car for more than 5 seconds you're in trouble.

 Matt M.
WWA 1887
AHM KDEN

Well, we have turbine powered land vehicles too.  They're quite loud though, just like turbine powered aircraft, hence why you don't see them.  Chrysler actually built a turbine-powered family car .. well, a prototype.. it worked.. but it tended to melt components rather easily.

Autopilot was invented for airplanes very early on... in the 1920s, if not before.  Airplanes in cruise flight dont have to worry about old people and peach trees and children and electric scooters and farmers markets and libraries getting in the way, unless the altitude hold is set at too low of an altitude ;)  Airplanes don't have to follow terrain or merge or anything like what cars need to deal with on the ground.

Cars and airplanes both use 19th century engine technology, at least for GA airplanes.  Some cars use 1930s engine technology (the Mazda RX-8 being the only currently-made production vehicle to do so however), and jet turbines are likewise 1930s/1940s technology.

Cars and airplanes both have GPS, both have fly/drive-by-wire...

So in what ways has the aviation industry surpassed the automotive industry in terms of technology?

 

 

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Scott M. Stone
WWA1712 - Cat-III - Director of Aircraft
VATSIM 1018857 - C1 Controller - KZSE
Private Pilot - ASEL + Complex + IFR (almost)