WestWind Airlines

Flight Test Report
Cargo Flight
Frankfurt - Edinburgh
FL 360
FSX

All systems working as previously reported. I am starting to be very happy with this plane.

One caveat. I think I downloaded a passenger version based on the way the payload data is layed out (1st. Bus and Econ Classes). Other than that, I am not sure I know how to tell the difference.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

I'm not sure there are any actual painted cargo aircraft available from POSKY, just the model so far.  The 777F is basically a 777-200LR with a giant hole cut in the back of it for the cargo door, and slightly different operating weights......I think once we figure out the basics with one of the 777's we can apply the changes to the -200ER, -200LR & -200F and end up with 3 very nice aircraft......and eventually the -300ER also......

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR

Flight Test Report
Edinburgh - Frankfurt - Prague
Weather - Fog
FSX

I made some adjustments to the following. Values commented out have been replaced in favor of another.

//max_throttle_rate=0.030000
//max_throttle_rate=0.185000 gives 280-290 on takeoff
max_throttle_rate=0.3000

//toe_brakes_scale=0.580
//toe_brakes_scale=0.85
toe_brakes_scale=1.100

I am not completely happy with these yet but they are getting better. The brakes work considerably better. The plane taxi's much better as long as you don't gun the engines. Some of the overspeed (280-290 kts now as long as you get off the 100% N! quickly after takeoff.) problems might be solved with a better takeoff technique and delaying engaging the autopilot until the speed is stabilized.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

VPCargo:

Scott,

AFAIK there is no paint kit for this yet (I haven't checked today yet).  Don't worry about painting it, I've got the itch to paint this one and I haven't done one in a while so I'll handle that part, and then you can move the textures over to FSX and package the fsx version.......

I don't know that they don't acknowledge the existence of FSX, more like ignore it, although they have made FSX specific models of their 737ng series, unfortunately the guy that was making the vc for the 737 left POSKY and took the vc with him.......

where did he go?  Is he making a 737 with/for someone else?

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Scott M. Stone
WWA1712 - Cat-III - Director of Aircraft
VATSIM 1018857 - C1 Controller - KZSE
Private Pilot - ASEL + Complex + IFR (almost)

Unfortunately I don't know is the answer to both of those questions........

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR

Flight Test Report
Prague - Vencie - Prague
Weather - Rainy and Stormy
FSX

OK. I think I am happy with these settings now. 

//max_throttle_rate=0.030000
//max_throttle_rate=0.185000 gives 280-290 on takeoff
max_throttle_rate=0.3000
Note: This setting requires a 15-20 degree nose up takeoff to keep from overspeeding. This needs to be in the instructions for the aircraft. If we don't like that, then it needs more work.

//toe_brakes_scale=0.580
//toe_brakes_scale=0.85
//toe_brakes_scale=1.100
toe_brakes_scale=1.500

We are looking good. She is a joy to fly now.

TODO

I need to test her in high crosswind. On my first flight, I had a pretty good crosswind and could barely hold her on the RWY on takeoff.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

Flight Test Report
Prague - Sofia - Prague
WX - Fog
FSX

The takeoff continues to be a little problematic trying to find and maintain less than 250 kts. I am going to try a vertical climb setting for the autopilot of 2500 fpm. I tested this on the descent and it works fine. Will update this post after the next flight. [EDIT] 2500 fpm works a lot better. This kept me within 10 kts of the 250 kts speed limit. It allows for a much more normal (imho) taekoff and a 10 degree up angle at liftoff.

Service Ceiling. [Edited] FL510. Here is the data I captured. She was able to climb at 500 fpm at a sustained m. 84 through FL470. On the return flight, I climbed at m .80 to FL510 then accelerated to m .84 with the N1 leveling off at 85% at 450,500 lbs gross weight. Everything appeared as it should.

FL430, m 84, 243 KIAS
FL450  m.84, 232 KIAS
FL470 m. 84, 221 KIAS
FL490 m. 84 210 KIAS
FL510 m. 84 200 KIAS 85% N1 450,500 lbs gross weight.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

Mike, thanks for all your work on this.  I think the rw 777 is probably only certified up to FL410 or maybe FL420 (it has to do with how fast you can get down to 14000 after a rapid decpompression).

I'm glad the takeoff is working out.  The other thing to keep in mind is in the rw they may be using a reduced power takeoff, but it is not abnormal to rotate, let it fly off, and then pitch to 12 to 15 degrees in some aircraft.....

 

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR

VPCargo:

Mike, thanks for all your work on this.  I think the rw 777 is probably only certified up to FL410 or maybe FL420 (it has to do with how fast you can get down to 14000 after a rapid decpompression).

I'm glad the takeoff is working out.  The other thing to keep in mind is in the rw they may be using a reduced power takeoff, but it is not abnormal to rotate, let it fly off, and then pitch to 12 to 15 degrees in some aircraft.....

 

In that case, I think we are there on the flight dynamics. I think I like 2500 fpm better on the autopilot setting. It is just a lot smoother for the way I typically fly but you decide. I am looking forward to getting it painted now. I am going to keep flying and testing in various configurations. I want to try some MTOW takeoffs. Let me know if you need anything else. Oh yes, there is the VC. If I get a chance, I will spend some time on that one. No promises.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

Mike Gibbs:

VPCargo:

Mike, thanks for all your work on this.  I think the rw 777 is probably only certified up to FL410 or maybe FL420 (it has to do with how fast you can get down to 14000 after a rapid decpompression).

I'm glad the takeoff is working out.  The other thing to keep in mind is in the rw they may be using a reduced power takeoff, but it is not abnormal to rotate, let it fly off, and then pitch to 12 to 15 degrees in some aircraft.....

 

In that case, I think we are there on the flight dynamics. I think I like 2500 fpm better on the autopilot setting. It is just a lot smoother for the way I typically fly but you decide. I am looking forward to getting it painted now. I am going to keep flying and testing in various configurations. I want to try some MTOW takeoffs. Let me know if you need anything else. Oh yes, there is the VC. If I get a chance, I will spend some time on that one. No promises.

 

Let me know if you need any help with the VC... I got it working in FSX, and in either sim there's some quirks to it as far as the screen data assignments.

 

Is there any chance we can track down a RW B-777 checklist and see what the takeoff settings should be?  Maybe I should drive over to the factory and see if they'll let me look at one :)

... probably not.  Still, let's see if we can find one... 

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Scott M. Stone
WWA1712 - Cat-III - Director of Aircraft
VATSIM 1018857 - C1 Controller - KZSE
Private Pilot - ASEL + Complex + IFR (almost)

This is the closest I've come so far.......but I haven't spent a whole lot of time looking either.....

http://freechecklists.net/simchecklists.asp

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR

Flight Test Report

Multiple Flights

Here are a few thoughts after flying a number of flights.

1. VERTICAL SPEED HOLD. I am recommending going back to 1800 on the vertical speed for the autopilot. 2500 doesn't help that much and it just seems like overkill.
2. TAKEOFFS. Takeoffs are just not what they should be. Imho, this needs to be dogged until we all agree that it is OK like this or we make it more like the other planes I fly. This just doesn't behave properly and I don't think we should sweep it under the rug. I took off from KMIA rotated to 10 degrees, gear up, flaps up, switch from N1 hold to airspeed hold at about 200 KIAS, increased pitch to 20 degrees and held it there for what seemed like an eternity (probably 60 seconds), The airspeed still went to 260 KIAS before returning to 220 kts (the airspeed hold setting), I will keep working on it. If anyone else has ideas, let me know.
3. CHECKLIST. I have a checklist built if we want to use it. It needs to be tweaked just a little but it is pretty good as is.
4. PAINT. When we get anything at all that I can test, I would like to see what it looks like in the dark on my machine. This paint looks great in the dark but the MSFS B747 looks like a florescent blue guppy. I want to make sure we don't return to that problem and I want to do it before someone puts a lot of work into painting it.
5. VIRTUAL COCKPIT. I haven't done anything on this yet. I don't use them and I don't like them so it might be good for someone who knows what to look for does this. I do want to make sure that it does not dramatically impact the frame rates though.

 

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

Just an update.

Still waiting on a paintkit from POSKY.  Not sure what the delay is.  They just rolled out their CRJ-700 and 2 days later there's a paintkit available for that, oh well not much I can do about it......patience really is a virtue I guess.....

 

Takeoff:

Try not using the N1 hold on takeoff.  Once you've rotated and gotten off the ground go right to speed hold mode instead.  I haven't flown the airplane enough in FS9 yet to see if this is a porblem there, but I never use N1 hold in any airplane I fly.  It may be that we need to increase the reaction time of the autothrottles a little bit more, or there is just so much power from the engines that this is how it's going to be.......we'll keep plugging on that and see where we get.....

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR

VPCargo:

Just an update.

Still waiting on a paintkit from POSKY.  Not sure what the delay is.  They just rolled out their CRJ-700 and 2 days later there's a paintkit available for that, oh well not much I can do about it......patience really is a virtue I guess.....

 

Takeoff:

Try not using the N1 hold on takeoff.  Once you've rotated and gotten off the ground go right to speed hold mode instead.  I haven't flown the airplane enough in FS9 yet to see if this is a porblem there, but I never use N1 hold in any airplane I fly.  It may be that we need to increase the reaction time of the autothrottles a little bit more, or there is just so much power from the engines that this is how it's going to be.......we'll keep plugging on that and see where we get.....

This is just a little of my thinking so here goes. If it is the way the plane really flies, then no problem. Let's keep it that way. It is flyable as it is. This is not one of those things that must be fixed. I just think it can be a little better than it is now. I am happy to do the test flying and try to get it right.

I use the autothrottles a lot on takeoff. In the G550 it is a checllist item from Gulfstream. I am not an expert here but if it is a checklist item, then I assume it is not optional. I can make it work without using the autothrottles but it would seem like we should make it work correctly if we can. I think we can have our cake and eat it too if we work at it a little.

I have not wanted to tinker with the config file too much because I am not sure you are ready to do that. If you are ready and you are convinced you can use the changes I make when we get our version going, then I will go ahead and start testing and making changes. Again, I only want to do that if we will be able to use them. Otherwise it is a waste of time.

I am excited about this plane. I think people are going to like it. Thanks for the work you are doing on it. I am just about to finishe the Asia part of P002. It would be a good time for me to take a break and do some flight testing.

Let me know.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

Remeber I'm flying in FS9.....

Allright, I departed Amsterdam for Sydney earlier today (almost there..).......and I went speed hold after rotation, and it overshot by about 8 knots before settling at 250 knots, it probably didn't help that I am on the road and flying by the keyboard (I overrotated on takeoff and the autopilot took a minute to catch up, so I never really stabilized in pitch as fast as I should have) so, I'll need to evaluate this a little further........

In all the jump seating I did back in the day I don't recall the autothrottles being used until we were up in the air (and I've ridden twice in a 777 cockpit).  I know that toga was used, but only to get the flight director up and in the takeoff position.  I'm struggling to remember if they used them on takeoff in the 777 (it was on AA).  Anyway, part of the issue we may be having is that we are using max power for takeoff, something that is not done all that often in the real world, unless the plane is really heavy.......I also suspect that we are all rotating late (at too fast of a speed compared to the real airplane...).

I have this same issue with the speed in the POSKY 737's and the 757/767.  It may just be something that is endemic to flight sim.  At this point I'm not sure it's worth messing with the cfg file as I feel that whatever we may change is going to bring only an incremental improvement, if any at all......I'll mess with it a little on my end, and if I get something phenomenal I'll let you know......

From what I've flown so far, I really like how this thing handles.  It taxis well, takeoff is good, climb is good.  I took off at max gross and climbed right to FL370 with no problems.  The range looks like it is very close (if anything it will have a little bit too much range).  The only thing I haven't really flogged it with yet is heavy crosswinds.......

I converted my textures from 32 bit back to dxt3, this helped my naked gray airplane syndrome considerably even in EHAM with lots of ai traffic and real world weather.  I was getting on average 15 fps or so......

The next thing I'm going to do is get a regular 777-200ER from POSKY, tweak the cfg with what we have done, and then take that thing out for a spin or two.  If we could get a paint kit we would be really close on this thing.

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR