WestWind Airlines Home Page

WestWind Airlines

Discussion Forums
Welcome to WestWind Airlines Sign in | Help
in Search

Flight Instructers

Last post 03-25-2010, 7:34 AM by Mike Gibbs. 42 replies.
Page 2 of 3 (43 items)   < Previous 1 2 3 Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  •  03-17-2010, 2:23 PM 36596 in reply to 36595

    Re: Flight Instructers

    Great! Now I have to bring a helmet, or prepare for a sore head.Big Smile 

    Kameron
    WWA2334
    Rio Hub Manager
  •  03-17-2010, 2:23 PM 36597 in reply to 36595

    Re: Flight Instructers

    Great! Now I have to bring a helmet, or prepare for a sore head.Big Smile 

    Kameron
    WWA2334
    Rio Hub Manager
  •  03-19-2010, 3:17 PM 36626 in reply to 36597

    Re: Flight Instructers

    Alright, first flight complete! To my surprise I found it easier than the simulator. Maybe that's because I usually fly the biggest and fastest aircraft I can get my hands on but I also think it was because the yoke I have at home you have to move it nearly an inch before you get any resistance, and so, as a result to that the aircraft is not as responsive. For the real thing I barely moved the yoke. Even for landing the aircraft seemed to line its self up. (No I sadly did not get to complete the landing. My instructor took over for the last couple seconds.) One other reason was he took care of the mixture and ATC.  And I'm sure luck played a big part too. Surprisingly, I found the hardest part was taxing. Kept over correcting and was chasing the yellow line all over. Thats one place where my simulator was more responsive than the airplane. I know I'm just repeating stuff that you RW pilots already know but I thought it was interesting. I also had a question. I'm doing some flights just for practice on the simulators, and I was wondering if I could count it as flight time for WWA? For example if I do 1 hour of touch and go's can I log an hour of training? Any way, my next flight is next Thrusday I'll see if I can get some pic's and post them.  Sorry the double post earlier.



    Kameron
    WWA2334
    Rio Hub Manager
  •  03-20-2010, 5:25 AM 36636 in reply to 36626

    Re: Flight Instructers

    Kameron Eves:

    I also had a question. I'm doing some flights just for practice on the simulators, and I was wondering if I could count it as flight time for WWA? For example if I do 1 hour of touch and go's can I log an hour of training? Any way, my next flight is next Thrusday I'll see if I can get some pic's and post them.  Sorry the double post earlier.

    Kam - I've seen plenty of flight logs with people doing this (incl mine)!  I would think it's fine.


    Matt Smith, WWA2218, CAT IV
    Rio de Janeiro (SBGL) Hub
    FSX Acceleration/Vista64
  •  03-20-2010, 7:14 AM 36637 in reply to 36636

    Re: Flight Instructers

    If you are flying a WW Aircraft, I don't see any reason you can't log it as training.


    EVP Hub Operations, Sr. Test Pilot
    Senior Command Captain +4
    RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
    FSX-SP2 + Radar Contact
    Orbiter, FaceBook
  •  03-20-2010, 8:15 AM 36640 in reply to 36636

    Re: Flight Instructers

    Matt2218:
    Kameron Eves:

    I also had a question. I'm doing some flights just for practice on the simulators, and I was wondering if I could count it as flight time for WWA? For example if I do 1 hour of touch and go's can I log an hour of training? Any way, my next flight is next Thrusday I'll see if I can get some pic's and post them.  Sorry the double post earlier.

    Kam - I've seen plenty of flight logs with people doing this (incl mine)!  I would think it's fine.

    I wouldn't think any flight schools are using MSFS as a PCATD software platform. The platform itself must be submitted and approved by the FAA or the school must submit the PCATD to the local FSDO for evaluation IAW AC 61-126 http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/d0d8cda61e05eb90862569ba0052b8f6/$FILE/ATTX7OJX/AC61-126.pdf. For that reason alone I would guess that you would not be able to log time in an approved PCATD that is at you local flight school. The two more popular software platforms in the US are ELITE and On Top as both have approved status for the hardware and software setup from the FAA. Also technically if you modify the PCATD it can loose its approved status. Thus in the case of an MSFS based PCATD installing a third party aircraft, such as WWA aircraft could technically invalidate the certification of the PCATD despite the fact that the trainer aircraft does not have to perform like its real world counterpart.

     


    -KenG
    A358 (Retired)

  •  03-20-2010, 9:06 AM 36645 in reply to 36640

    Re: Flight Instructers

    Kameron. Ever get this feeling some days. :)

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCir5Wwpvos


    WWA2024




  •  03-20-2010, 11:21 AM 36647 in reply to 36640

    Re: Flight Instructers

    Ken G:
    Matt2218:
    Kameron Eves:

    I also had a question. I'm doing some flights just for practice on the simulators, and I was wondering if I could count it as flight time for WWA? For example if I do 1 hour of touch and go's can I log an hour of training? Any way, my next flight is next Thrusday I'll see if I can get some pic's and post them.  Sorry the double post earlier.

    Kam - I've seen plenty of flight logs with people doing this (incl mine)!  I would think it's fine.

    I wouldn't think any flight schools are using MSFS as a PCATD software platform. The platform itself must be submitted and approved by the FAA or the school must submit the PCATD to the local FSDO for evaluation IAW AC 61-126 http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/d0d8cda61e05eb90862569ba0052b8f6/$FILE/ATTX7OJX/AC61-126.pdf. For that reason alone I would guess that you would not be able to log time in an approved PCATD that is at you local flight school. The two more popular software platforms in the US are ELITE and On Top as both have approved status for the hardware and software setup from the FAA. Also technically if you modify the PCATD it can loose its approved status. Thus in the case of an MSFS based PCATD installing a third party aircraft, such as WWA aircraft could technically invalidate the certification of the PCATD despite the fact that the trainer aircraft does not have to perform like its real world counterpart.

     

    I'm pretty sure Kam was referring to logging time with WestWind practicing touch and go with the simulator.


    Bob Sturm
    Senior Command Captain+2
    Retired Exec. Officer - Scenery
    My Website
  •  03-20-2010, 11:32 AM 36649 in reply to 36640

    Re: Flight Instructers

    Ken;

    I think some simulators are using Microsoft ESP.  Poked my head inside a 'redbird' at local airport flight school and I could swear the scenery was straight out of FSX!


    Matt Smith, WWA2218, CAT IV
    Rio de Janeiro (SBGL) Hub
    FSX Acceleration/Vista64
  •  03-20-2010, 12:23 PM 36651 in reply to 36649

    Re: Flight Instructers

    If you have some paying customer who want's to get her (let's make it interesting at least) jollies by riding around watching you do touch and goes, you can even make it P015. There are lots of ways to make these legitimate flight hours in your WW log book. As I alluded to in a previous post, we encourage pilots to get recurrency training every so often as they do in the real world. There is no reason it can't be in a Cessna given the fact that we have Cessna's in the fleet and fly them for charters. The prime directive has not been violated. Smile


    EVP Hub Operations, Sr. Test Pilot
    Senior Command Captain +4
    RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
    FSX-SP2 + Radar Contact
    Orbiter, FaceBook
  •  03-20-2010, 7:23 PM 36656 in reply to 36645

    Re: Flight Instructers

    Bob Sturm:

    I'm pretty sure Kam was referring to logging time with WestWind practicing touch and go with the simulator. 

    Ya, Bob that's what I meant.

    Thanks guys! 

    Randy Donnelly:
     

    Kameron. Ever get this feeling some days. :)

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCir5Wwpvos

    What do you mean? Do you mean the feeling of falling when your not supposed to be? If so then defiantly! Usually on landings.  



    Kameron
    WWA2334
    Rio Hub Manager
  •  03-21-2010, 10:24 PM 36704 in reply to 36649

    Re: Flight Instructers

    Matt2218:

    Ken;

    I think some simulators are using Microsoft ESP.  Poked my head inside a 'redbird' at local airport flight school and I could swear the scenery was straight out of FSX!

    That would be interesting as everything that I have read on ESP was that it was a procedural trainer only and no one had FAA certification on the system. If you can find out any information on a ESP FAA certified PCATD I would be interested in who manufactures it. ESP having FAA certification would break the barrier of "its only a game" and put the entire software firmly into simulation category. Then again I have seen people turn $35 million Level D certified simulators into games so it is more mindset than anything else.


    -KenG
    A358 (Retired)

  •  03-22-2010, 4:47 AM 36707 in reply to 36704

    Re: Flight Instructers

    Ken;

    Here's the model I poked my head into: http://www.redbirdflightsimulations.com/rbfmx

    Says its an "AATD". I am ignorant of the distinctions, but it did look like FSX inside :)


    Matt Smith, WWA2218, CAT IV
    Rio de Janeiro (SBGL) Hub
    FSX Acceleration/Vista64
  •  03-22-2010, 7:39 AM 36712 in reply to 36707

    Re: Flight Instructers

    Matt,

     Thank you,  I'll have to take your word at that as there is nothing on their site that states the software or anything that provides detailed enough photos of the out the window view for me to make any comments on.

    AATD stands for Advanced Aviation Training Devices as opposed to Basic Aviation Training Devices, both are defined in AC 61-136:

    Basic Aviation Training Device (BATD). A BATD is a device that:
    (1) Meets or exceeds the criteria outlined in Appendix 2 (BATD Requirements) of this advisory circular (AC),
    (2) Provides a training platform for at least the procedural aspects of flight relating to an integrated ground and flight instrument training curriculum, and
    (3) The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) finds acceptable in a manner as outlined in this AC.

    Advanced Aviation Training Device (AATD). An AATD is a device that:
    (1) Meets or exceeds the criteria outlined in Appendix 2;
    (2) Meets or exceeds the criteria outlined in Appendix 3 (AATD Requirements);
    (3) Provides a training platform for both procedural and operational performance tasks related to ground and flight training towards private pilot, commercial pilot, and airline transport pilot certificates, a flight instructor certificate, and instrument rating per Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) parts 61 and 141; and
    (4) The FAA finds acceptable in a manner as outlined in this AC.

    BLUF: a BATD may be used for the 10 hours of instrument instruction and 2.5 hours toward a private license under Parts 61 or 141 respectively whereas an AATD is much more capable and allows for the following:

    • Logging instrument flight experience
    • Instrument rating (maximum 20 hours)
    • Instrument rating practical test (per FAA-S-8081-4 (circling-to-land not authorized))
    • Instrument proficiency check (per FAA-S-8081-4 (circling-to-land not authorized))
    • Private pilot certificate (maximum 2.5 hours)
    • Commercial pilot certificate (maximum 50 hours)
    • Commercial pilot practical test (per FAA-S-8081-12)
    • Airline transport pilot certificate (maximum 25 hours)
    • Airline transport pilot practical test (per FAA-S-8081-5)
    • Part 141 as limited by the applicable appendices, or under a special curriculum approved under part 141, § 141.57.

    AC 61-136 canceled AC 61-126, however did provide grandfathering for PCATDs certified under the old regulations.

    It seems that ELITE has gotten into more of the hardware business as opposed to their original software business and the
    ELITE PI-121 "PCATD" and the ELITE PI-135 "BATD" both being advertised as FAA certified for 10 hours (PCATD) and 10 + 2.5 hours (BATD) using the following software:

    • ELITE V8.5
    • Microsoft Flight Sim 2002/2004/X
    • ASA On Top
    • X-Plane

     

    So I stand corrected, I guess you can have a PCATD or a BATD with MSFS 2002/2004/X and most importantly you can have MSFS and legally log time toward an FAA license with the right hardware. I guess that means that MSFS is technically real Aviation Training Software.


    -KenG
    A358 (Retired)

  •  03-22-2010, 5:02 PM 36722 in reply to 36712

    Re: Flight Instructers

    Good stuff, thanks Ken!

    Which brings me to thinking...boy I wish Microsoft would leak SOMETHING about the plan for the future of flight simulation.  I remember about a year ago now I did an online survey about preferences for a new game (due to being registered at FSinsider I believe). 

    They had a lot of "out of the box ideas"...I remember telling them "Whatever you do, please do not forget those of us who want to fly the peaceful civilian skies with a high degree of realism. We'll see I guess.


    Matt Smith, WWA2218, CAT IV
    Rio de Janeiro (SBGL) Hub
    FSX Acceleration/Vista64
Page 2 of 3 (43 items)   < Previous 1 2 3 Next >
View as RSS news feed in XML
Powered by Community Server (Personal Edition), by Telligent Systems